You may have seen in the indoor volunteer thread, Steve said, "Start a new thread with the topic of indoor track ideas and we can make it a contest before each race weekend to see whose ideas are selected. It will be great to get some fresh ideas. Just remember the limitations we have; amount of dirt, time and flow of the track."
So there you have it, lets get those creative juices flowin and see what we can come up with!
I'll post mine when I get home from work.
Indoor Track Brainstorm
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Curtis Newkirk
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Good, old-fashioned opens. This would provide for some fun racing and more track time for those that need it. This could be in addition to the more specialty opens like Pit Bike, MTB, and No Clips. Nothing against those races, but a lot of people just don't bring or have that equipment. Evryone who races has a race bike.
Classes could be something like: 7 & Under, 8 - 10, 11 - 13, 14 - 16, 17 +, Girls 10 & Under, Girls 11 & Older. We could also combine the boys and the girls and make the age spread smaller. There are lots of ways to break the classes down, but I would really like to see a return to opens.
Rules: Must be entered in a regular class race, $1 entry, prize: bragging rights
Classes could be something like: 7 & Under, 8 - 10, 11 - 13, 14 - 16, 17 +, Girls 10 & Under, Girls 11 & Older. We could also combine the boys and the girls and make the age spread smaller. There are lots of ways to break the classes down, but I would really like to see a return to opens.
Rules: Must be entered in a regular class race, $1 entry, prize: bragging rights
~Curtis
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JasonStout
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How about making the area before the sweeper corner a little busier so the speeds into the sweeper are a little less.
Rather than a step up, or double into it, like a roller, double, roller, roller, sweeper corner... Just something to keep the speed around where you'd want it for the corner.
Just my $.02
(If it's a penny for your thoughts, and you put your two cents in, someone's making a profit somewhere!)
JS
Rather than a step up, or double into it, like a roller, double, roller, roller, sweeper corner... Just something to keep the speed around where you'd want it for the corner.
Just my $.02
(If it's a penny for your thoughts, and you put your two cents in, someone's making a profit somewhere!)
JS
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bnd
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I'll start off by saying I don't want my opinion to rub anybody the wrong way, so please just take it as my thoughts & nothing more.
- I really think the track designs need to be looked at & to see what we could do to get away from "single file racing" after the first turn. Once your in the lead down the 2nd straight 99% of the time the leader has it in the bag & the race is over. Anybody that has studied this knows that one of the reasons is how corners have evolved over the last 12 years right about the time clips came around in BMX.
- I still hate seeing rollers 20ft out of the gate.
- I like the basic layout right now, daytona first turn, jumps in front of the stands, ect. I think the last turn could be addressed. Dish it "down" more than half & make it wider. Chalk & cone the inside of the turn down low, this will create a whole lot more action in the last corner since the corner itself is wider & there is more than 2 lines going into it. The last corner at Battle Bay around 01' was absolutley awesome for high-lows & low-highs because it was very wide & not too steep & tall.
- Another thing is the big jumps. The measuring stick for indoors has usually been around 16-18ft' that's fine. But if you don't have a decent set-up jump before it it's very difficult for average joes to get that last bit of speed to boost it.
The 2nd straight.......nice mellow 15ft' table out of the turn followed by an 18 footer. Monster & Turbo would really like that layout on a consistant basis.
- I love the last straight decision maker stuff.
- In indoor racing, it's always been my belief that you should make the race to the first corner alittle more difficult for the inside guys as there is an advantage. Iv'e seen this built most of the time & I like it.
- I still hate seeing rollers 20ft out of the gate.
Anyways, those are my thoughts. When I was helping out alot up in Rock Springs we where always trying to think outside the box & not afraid to try new things. Almost all of the time it all worked out. I also got alot of inspriation from looking at old tracks & building on ideas from them. When Beau told us we should build a step up at the 3/4 mark of the Daytona 1st turn I thought it was totally wack & would never work. It did & it was awesome. That design has sayed in place for awhile now up there.
- I still hate seeing rollers 20ft out of the gate.
Like I said I'll try to make it out & help rake come Friday.
Bruce
- I really think the track designs need to be looked at & to see what we could do to get away from "single file racing" after the first turn. Once your in the lead down the 2nd straight 99% of the time the leader has it in the bag & the race is over. Anybody that has studied this knows that one of the reasons is how corners have evolved over the last 12 years right about the time clips came around in BMX.
- I still hate seeing rollers 20ft out of the gate.
- I like the basic layout right now, daytona first turn, jumps in front of the stands, ect. I think the last turn could be addressed. Dish it "down" more than half & make it wider. Chalk & cone the inside of the turn down low, this will create a whole lot more action in the last corner since the corner itself is wider & there is more than 2 lines going into it. The last corner at Battle Bay around 01' was absolutley awesome for high-lows & low-highs because it was very wide & not too steep & tall.
- Another thing is the big jumps. The measuring stick for indoors has usually been around 16-18ft' that's fine. But if you don't have a decent set-up jump before it it's very difficult for average joes to get that last bit of speed to boost it.
The 2nd straight.......nice mellow 15ft' table out of the turn followed by an 18 footer. Monster & Turbo would really like that layout on a consistant basis.
- I love the last straight decision maker stuff.
- In indoor racing, it's always been my belief that you should make the race to the first corner alittle more difficult for the inside guys as there is an advantage. Iv'e seen this built most of the time & I like it.
- I still hate seeing rollers 20ft out of the gate.
Anyways, those are my thoughts. When I was helping out alot up in Rock Springs we where always trying to think outside the box & not afraid to try new things. Almost all of the time it all worked out. I also got alot of inspriation from looking at old tracks & building on ideas from them. When Beau told us we should build a step up at the 3/4 mark of the Daytona 1st turn I thought it was totally wack & would never work. It did & it was awesome. That design has sayed in place for awhile now up there.
- I still hate seeing rollers 20ft out of the gate.
Like I said I'll try to make it out & help rake come Friday.
Bruce
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JasonStout
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Here is something a little abstract. I feel that the "Logan Indoor" layout needs to go. Not that I don't like it, cause sweepers are fun to race in; I just deem it necessary to move on. I've been thinking about different layouts that may work; here is something I came up with.
Here's my thinking. All of the dirt that is used to "bank" the sweeper has got to be enough to build a berm. So build the first turn about the size of what the second berm was in previous years, push the second corner onto the starting hill to save some dirt, and then offset the third straight so the last turn is halfway between a 180 and a 90. I don't know if anybody remembers, but when my parents and the Parry family did Logan for a season, the offset straight combined with the 125* berm was very fast and it flowed very well.
So theres some of my pocket change.
Here's my thinking. All of the dirt that is used to "bank" the sweeper has got to be enough to build a berm. So build the first turn about the size of what the second berm was in previous years, push the second corner onto the starting hill to save some dirt, and then offset the third straight so the last turn is halfway between a 180 and a 90. I don't know if anybody remembers, but when my parents and the Parry family did Logan for a season, the offset straight combined with the 125* berm was very fast and it flowed very well.
So theres some of my pocket change.
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bnd
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Rock Springs tryed something like that years ago & it was tight, very tight in the 1st turn. I'll try to dig up the video .
If any layout changes could happen it would be nice to put the 2nd corner farther back like that RCQ 2 years ago. Of course that would mean moving the Proformance bike shop somewhere else that is easily accessable.
b.
If any layout changes could happen it would be nice to put the 2nd corner farther back like that RCQ 2 years ago. Of course that would mean moving the Proformance bike shop somewhere else that is easily accessable.
b.
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sspencer
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I was hoping that more people would get involved with the 'brainstorming". I appreciate any and all comments. We do have some constraints to work within such as limited time and dirt so that makes it difficult to make any drastic changes or additions. We have roughly 1000 yards of dirt to work with which is approximated 1/4 of what Rad Canyon consists of.
Comments & Answers:
Jason Stout -
"How about making the area before the sweeper corner a little busier so the speeds into the sweeper are a little less"
Jason, I like your idea and will look to apply it. Thanks!
Bruce Ritter -
1) I really think the track designs need to be looked at & to see what we could do to get away from "single file racing" after the first turn
Bruce, I wish it were that easy to change. If you remember any of the old local concrete and dirt indoors in the past, they all lent to the "follow-the-leader" racing. This comes from short straights and small jumps. Even though we have this going against us we still have some great racing. Pretty much most BMX races anywhere are a race to the first turn.
2) I think the last turn could be addressed. Dish it "down" more than half & make it wider.
We are always looking to make the turns better and if you have some input we woudl greatly appreciate the assistance. I am locked up in the tractor pretty much until I build the last jump, usually 6:00pm when pratice is to start, and cannot get out to give the turns the "riders touch" they need. Bruce, if you can come out and help with the fine tuning it would be appreciated.
3) The 2nd straight.......nice mellow 15ft' table out of the turn followed by an 18 footer. Monster & Turbo would really like that layout on a consistant basis
We do build that configuration on occasion. I try to mix it up with a little variation. If it was always easy there would be no challenge for Turbo and Monster
4) I love the last straight decision maker stuff
That is the most common comment from the racers. It makes the littlest of racers feel like a pro and is fun for the big guys.
5) build a step up at the 3/4 mark of the Daytona 1st turn I thought it was totally wack & would never work. It did & it was awesome.
We will look to a build somethng like that on occasion. The problem we run into is that to build a jump in a turn requires alot of repetitive motion in the tractor and it causes the sandier dirt to chew up and not pack as easily. We can experiment with it and see how it comes out. Plus it takes a little more time to build than a normal jump. Look for it to happen if time allows. Thanks for the idea Bruce!
5) I still hate seeing rollers 20ft out of the gate.
That tombstone will have your name on it week-in and week-out brother
I will try to change it up when I do the "Stout-Stumbler" into the first turn.
6) If any layout changes could happen it would be nice to put the 2nd corner farther back like that RCQ 2 years ago. Of course that would mean moving the Proformance bike shop somewhere else that is easily accessable.
In order to move the turn back we would have to remove the gate panels through that whole back section. The county is the ones who have to move them and they charged us $500.00 to remove them for the RCQ. It is not feasible for the track to pay that amount of money to gain a few extra feet of track.
Travis Healey -
All of the dirt that is used to "bank" the sweeper has got to be enough to build a berm
1) I wish it were enough Trav'. There is about 75 yards of dirt in the first turn. The second turn uses close to 80 yards of dirt and it can barely hold a couple of riders at that point on the track. For the speeds and safety of the riders and the amount of dirt and time available, teh sweeper is the best option unless we went to sweepers for the second and third turns and put all of the dirt into the first turn. Again lack of dirt = lack of turns and jumps.
2) I don't know if anybody remembers, but when my parents and the Parry family did Logan for a season, the offset straight combined with the 125* berm was very fast and it flowed very well.
Trav', I like your thinking "outside the box". We can try to implement a variation of your design. My experience with dog-legged straights (like the third straight in your drawing) is that they tend to single-file out the pack event more and take away from side-by-side racing when there is a definite shorter path. We could counter it with steeper, more difficult obstacles on the inside line??? Ideas?
Thanks again guys for your input. I hate to seem like a party-pooper and shoot down some of your ideas but after years of trial and error building you start to learn what works where. I am not saying I know everything that is why I am asking for ideas as I tend to get stuck in a rut. Plus please remember that the build is also a race with time and we are cranking for 8 to 10 hours to get the track done in time for practice. I appreciate all who come out and help get the track dialed in prior to each race. Please feel free to keep posting up ideas for jumps and different sections.
Thanks to everyone who support UTAH BMX!!!
Steve
Comments & Answers:
Jason Stout -
"How about making the area before the sweeper corner a little busier so the speeds into the sweeper are a little less"
Jason, I like your idea and will look to apply it. Thanks!
Bruce Ritter -
1) I really think the track designs need to be looked at & to see what we could do to get away from "single file racing" after the first turn
Bruce, I wish it were that easy to change. If you remember any of the old local concrete and dirt indoors in the past, they all lent to the "follow-the-leader" racing. This comes from short straights and small jumps. Even though we have this going against us we still have some great racing. Pretty much most BMX races anywhere are a race to the first turn.
2) I think the last turn could be addressed. Dish it "down" more than half & make it wider.
We are always looking to make the turns better and if you have some input we woudl greatly appreciate the assistance. I am locked up in the tractor pretty much until I build the last jump, usually 6:00pm when pratice is to start, and cannot get out to give the turns the "riders touch" they need. Bruce, if you can come out and help with the fine tuning it would be appreciated.
3) The 2nd straight.......nice mellow 15ft' table out of the turn followed by an 18 footer. Monster & Turbo would really like that layout on a consistant basis
We do build that configuration on occasion. I try to mix it up with a little variation. If it was always easy there would be no challenge for Turbo and Monster
4) I love the last straight decision maker stuff
That is the most common comment from the racers. It makes the littlest of racers feel like a pro and is fun for the big guys.
5) build a step up at the 3/4 mark of the Daytona 1st turn I thought it was totally wack & would never work. It did & it was awesome.
We will look to a build somethng like that on occasion. The problem we run into is that to build a jump in a turn requires alot of repetitive motion in the tractor and it causes the sandier dirt to chew up and not pack as easily. We can experiment with it and see how it comes out. Plus it takes a little more time to build than a normal jump. Look for it to happen if time allows. Thanks for the idea Bruce!
5) I still hate seeing rollers 20ft out of the gate.
That tombstone will have your name on it week-in and week-out brother
I will try to change it up when I do the "Stout-Stumbler" into the first turn.
6) If any layout changes could happen it would be nice to put the 2nd corner farther back like that RCQ 2 years ago. Of course that would mean moving the Proformance bike shop somewhere else that is easily accessable.
In order to move the turn back we would have to remove the gate panels through that whole back section. The county is the ones who have to move them and they charged us $500.00 to remove them for the RCQ. It is not feasible for the track to pay that amount of money to gain a few extra feet of track.
Travis Healey -
All of the dirt that is used to "bank" the sweeper has got to be enough to build a berm
1) I wish it were enough Trav'. There is about 75 yards of dirt in the first turn. The second turn uses close to 80 yards of dirt and it can barely hold a couple of riders at that point on the track. For the speeds and safety of the riders and the amount of dirt and time available, teh sweeper is the best option unless we went to sweepers for the second and third turns and put all of the dirt into the first turn. Again lack of dirt = lack of turns and jumps.
2) I don't know if anybody remembers, but when my parents and the Parry family did Logan for a season, the offset straight combined with the 125* berm was very fast and it flowed very well.
Trav', I like your thinking "outside the box". We can try to implement a variation of your design. My experience with dog-legged straights (like the third straight in your drawing) is that they tend to single-file out the pack event more and take away from side-by-side racing when there is a definite shorter path. We could counter it with steeper, more difficult obstacles on the inside line??? Ideas?
Thanks again guys for your input. I hate to seem like a party-pooper and shoot down some of your ideas but after years of trial and error building you start to learn what works where. I am not saying I know everything that is why I am asking for ideas as I tend to get stuck in a rut. Plus please remember that the build is also a race with time and we are cranking for 8 to 10 hours to get the track done in time for practice. I appreciate all who come out and help get the track dialed in prior to each race. Please feel free to keep posting up ideas for jumps and different sections.
Thanks to everyone who support UTAH BMX!!!
Steve
Spence'- dizzle fo'- shizzle
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bnd
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2) I think the last turn could be addressed. Dish it "down" more than half & make it wider.
We are always looking to make the turns better and if you have some input we woudl greatly appreciate the assistance. I am locked up in the tractor pretty much until I build the last jump, usually 6:00pm when pratice is to start, and cannot get out to give the turns the "riders touch" they need. Bruce, if you can come out and help with the fine tuning it would be appreciated.
Ok, I will. I'll call it a day around noon & be out around 1pm'ish. You just better be ready for me & my rake as I'll get after it.
Also, I forgot that the County charged RC for the gate move, sorry.
Travis Healey -
All of the dirt that is used to "bank" the sweeper has got to be enough to build a berm
1) I wish it were enough Trav'. There is about 75 yards of dirt in the first turn. The second turn uses close to 80 yards of dirt and it can barely hold a couple of riders at that point on the track. For the speeds and safety of the riders and the amount of dirt and time available, teh sweeper is the best option unless we went to sweepers for the second and third turns and put all of the dirt into the first turn. Again lack of dirt = lack of turns and jumps.
Try putting a nice wide sweeper for the 2nd corner & use the dirt elsewhere. Yeah, people will have to slow down to get through there but your going to see alot more passing & action for sure if there isn't one blue-groove line through a barely 2-person wide berm, right? You know I'm right.
The thing with rollers down the first straight. I don't have a real problem with them at all. I just got tired of seeing the same 'ol same 'ol at every race. I guess what I'm saying is completley change it up now & then.
3) The 2nd straight.......nice mellow 15ft' table out of the turn followed by an 18 footer. Monster & Turbo would really like that layout on a consistant basis
We do build that configuration on occasion. I try to mix it up with a little variation. If it was always easy there would be no challenge for Turbo and Monster
Another thing I should of clarified. The jump that usually goes in last leading into the 2nd corner.......there is nothing scarier at my age & my ability (ave. joe) than having a ton of speed & facing down a dug-out 20ft dub. Either make it a table or a dub that 80% of us can clear safely.
Last but certainly not least.......
Yep, the county will let us have a BMX swap meet but there is one stipulation.... to participate you have to have raced more than 4 times locally in the last year so I guess that leaves you out Bruce
J/K
#1 - May, RC first cruiser night.
#2 - County Fair Friday night.
#3 - Tooele's last race of the year. (You weren't there).
#4 - RC's last race of the year (you weren't there).
...& Sat & Sun RC National.
All my ideas are just ideas & you could brush them off easily because I'm not even racing this weekend. Hopefully I'll be healthy for Dec. but I'm not rushing it. But I see this just like voting, can't witch about things unless you get out & vote. That's why I'm going to give up a half days pay to come out & help........so I can witch about how things are, good or bad!
Oh! I almost forgot, Beau is coming down Saturday & staying with me. We are going out to dinner after the races Saturday night, want to join us Steve?
b.
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sspencer
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Bruce,
Thanks for the offer to come out and help and feedback. All of your comments are justified and noted. I never intend to "brush off" anybody's suggestions but rather explain why things work and dont work. I look to change it up more and that is why I asked Travis to start this thread. Our paramaters for change are limited so we need to work within those.
Sorry I wont be able to make it out with you and Beau Saturday night. I fly out to Tulsa at 1:00pm Saturday afternoon. I plan to race Friday night though if you can stay to play?
Oh b', I said race MORE than four times LOCALLY. Nationals dont count as local races even if it is your local track
Semi-retired NAG #1, fatty-four-eyes, Chuck-A-Ramma special eatin', washed up ol' fool,
Steve
Thanks for the offer to come out and help and feedback. All of your comments are justified and noted. I never intend to "brush off" anybody's suggestions but rather explain why things work and dont work. I look to change it up more and that is why I asked Travis to start this thread. Our paramaters for change are limited so we need to work within those.
Sorry I wont be able to make it out with you and Beau Saturday night. I fly out to Tulsa at 1:00pm Saturday afternoon. I plan to race Friday night though if you can stay to play?
Oh b', I said race MORE than four times LOCALLY. Nationals dont count as local races even if it is your local track
Semi-retired NAG #1, fatty-four-eyes, Chuck-A-Ramma special eatin', washed up ol' fool,
Steve
Spence'- dizzle fo'- shizzle
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Extreme Team Coach
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Steve
First of all I want to say I always like to ride your tracts . but you know that ! My only $.02 I think would be is - that I'd vote to see the sweeper moved to like one of the last turns ! I think more NOVICE people like myself have a hard time holding onto that sweeper after giving it all down the first straight ! Thats it from me for now ! Thanks for ALL that YOU ALWAYS DO !
First of all I want to say I always like to ride your tracts . but you know that ! My only $.02 I think would be is - that I'd vote to see the sweeper moved to like one of the last turns ! I think more NOVICE people like myself have a hard time holding onto that sweeper after giving it all down the first straight ! Thats it from me for now ! Thanks for ALL that YOU ALWAYS DO !
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