2 Races per month.......? Please Read and Respond!!

[D Cook]

I know everyone is full swing into the indoor scene at Rad and at Rocksprings but we need to make some decisions soon as to the Future
of Deseret Peak BMX and I would like to give you all some imput.

Looking over DPBMX outdoor rider history, we have found that our average rider count for the last few years has only been about 20-25 riders at each race. (that is average folks!! including all the big races)

I don't know about you all, but we think this is SAD!

We (all workers and volunteers) have tried everything we can think of to bring in local riders, and to get the support from the ABA BMX community and even though we get support from our regulars, you know who you are and we thank you! We are just not sure that is enough.

So........

In an effort to make this work, we are conserding only holding 2 races per month.

That way we will not conflict with any nationals, or instate multi point races, and it will cut down on the cost of gas for those who have stayed away for that reason.

I read here in the forum that someone started a rumor about DPBMX shutting down and I would like to clear that up, as far as I know DPBMX never said they were shutting down, in addition we never said we were quitting, but we have thought about it.

So.... What are your thoughts?

Darrin & Diana

[bnd]

I think that would be a good choice D, cutting back to 2 races a month would add alittle more importance to those races. It sucks when you have the funnest track in the state & can't pull, but unfortunatly that has been Tooele's history since day one. If I was T.O. I would definatly take that route & wouldn't feel guilty about it.
Try opening early this year, weather permitting.

b.

[greg]

One word..........

BMX LEAGUE!

you get 4 tracks involved, 50 or more racers, a couple busses and or vans donated for use, and you race each of the 4 tracks twice each month for 3 or so months.

it could work!

As far as only holding 2 races per month, I guess it depends on your motivation for doing so. If you can't justify to yourself putting in so many hours every week for so few of riders, then I'd say definately do less races. But, if your motivation is to generate more riders at each race, then I'm very doubtfull that reducing the amount of races will help. I really don't think it is a saturation problem, in fact I think it is the inverse.

I really stand by my opinion that the main problem with local tracks is with advertising. In Deseret Peaks case, if you feel that you have sufficienty saturated the Tooele area with advertising, and still do not get the response that you want, then your only means to make the track viable is to expand your advertising to surounding areas. I know that you have done allot of work with bike safety fairs, etc, but have you used every available means possible to get the kids involved with BMX from the local community? Have you picked a month for a membership drive, and just absolutely saturate your market with BMX racing info? Is there a boothe at the county fair, a signup drive in the local supermarkets during your month, posters on every business in the area, banners on every corner, community newspaper articles, flyers in every school kids hands multiple times during your month (I believe provided free of charge from the ABA), etc, etc, etc????

I really hope that this is taken as constructive critisism, and not as me bashing anyone. I really love and respect the TOs and volunteers of our local tracks, and am very thankfull that someone does it. I love racing Tooele tracks whenever I can (although it is not very often), so I hope it continues to be around for many, many years to come. Deseret Peak does have a demographics (or is it geographic??) problem that will always need to be overcome in some way, but I think it is possible if the right tools are utilized.

So, feel free to call upon me whenever you need more mindless drible. I don't think I helped answer anything, but I do have just one last parting word..............

BMX LEAGUE!

[J Gallo]

Interesting topic.

First, let me say to the Cooks that I've always like you and I've tried to help out in anyway I can, so PLEEEASE don't take anything I say too hard. I know you two have put a TON of time into running and promoting that track, and I for one REALLY appreciate it.

Before I get started, honestly, if you're already thinking about quitting, don't read past this paragraph. Find someone else that can put 100% passion into running that track and have fun with it. If your already distressed about low rider count, and not having any fun, then that attitude will convey to the riders. People want to come out and ride to have fun, not hear about closing the track because of low rider count.

What kind of rider count are you looking for? I bet alot of tracks around the nation would be overjoyed with 20-25 average riders. Just ask the track in Mesquite, NV track that closed last year.

Let's start with something I just can't grasp. You want MORE riders to come out to the track, but you're going to hold LESS races to do it? Am I the only one that sees that as flawed logic? Knowing that not everyone can race all the time, holding races on only a select few days would, I think, prevent higher rider turnout. If for example someone has to work every other saturday, and you hold races on the same dates of work, when are they supposed to come to the track? If the real reason you want to hold less races is you don't want to come out and run the track for 20-25 riders, see previous paragraph.

Your best chance for a high rider turnout last year was the SCQ. Weather prevented it from happening on Saturday night which was NOT your fault. But, when we all sat around trying to decide when to reschedule, you decided on Wednesday evening. In my opinion, that was a bad decision, in regards to rider count. Just about everyone I talked to that night wanted to reschedule it for Sunday afternoon. You had alot of out of town riders that could not stay until wednesday to race, so you lost those people. Then I'm sure there were people (like myself), who have a very difficult time making it out to Tooele on a weeknight, who didn't come out to race. I'd be willing to be you got about 60% of the riders on wednesday that you could of had on Sunday.

Speaking only for myself, I'd like to see races start earlier on saturday, and on time. It seems that most nights we haven't got done until almost 10pm. Here's what I would suggest: Signups from 5-6pm, racing starts @ 6:30, no waiting. It's already a tough drive just from Salt Lake, but for those riders from Utah county and Davis county, it's gotta be brutal. If we could be done by 8 - 8:30, we could all get home at a decent time.

Last year I got really excited about the Tooele Open series. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one. But after a few weeks I didn't even know if it was still going on. There were no updates about the race, or about current standings. I would have liked to have sens a continued emphasis and regular updates (either by email or by website) to keep the excitement going. Especially to ensure the main sponsor (Staats) got plenty of advertising to offset their generous donations.

So I'm completely nitpicking, I love that track. It has a great balance of easy obstacles (for me to learn on) and big jumps for expert riders. I don't there is a single person that could complain about that track. But as great as a track might be, it comes down to the TO's and volunteers. If they are having fun being at the track, that helps create a positive atmosphere. Attitude can go a long way in getting more people out to the track.

Hopefully we all can continue to work together to make Deseret Peak BMX a success in 2005. I would really hate to see any track close and take away an opportunity to get out and ride. I truly don't mean anything I've said in a "mean spirited" sense, you asked for opinions and I gave a couple. Please take it as it's meant, constructive criticism.

As always, if I can help in any way, you know how to get hold of me!

[J Gallo]

Oh, and also, I have a pretty good idea who started the "rumor" thread about DPBMX closing. Let me know and I'll ban them posting on the site if you'd like.

[JasonStout]

Well put Jason G.

Tooele has a great track no doubt. Maintaining the track is gonna have to be done if you have 1 race of 10 races a month. Why not have more races?

The time and effort required to be succussful and thriving as a TO is unreal. DP is a great facility, but not condussive to kids on BMX bikes. Tooele and Grantsville is full of kids with bikes.

Cooks! Just keep doing what you are doing! The races were a blast. The series was awesome, the music, the track, etc... were all great. People will come as long as you are keeping it fun and worrying about the people that ARE there and not who isn't.

Greg has a point about getting the word out.
Jason has a point about updates on what happened at the races.

I think it would be a mistake to hold less races-unless you don't have the time or disposition to hold the races.

Thanks again Cooks for all you've done, and for being willing to go back to the drawing board to make this season to come the best ever!

Let's keep the discussion going!

JS

[Guest]

Hi and thanks for all the imput that has come our way.

I am going to reply to everyone at once in this eamail so watch for anything in reply to something you may have written.

First off I know who started the rumor, it was actually done on my computer by a friend of mine without my knowledge, sorry.

The first issue I would like to clear up a bit is about what Greg said about our motovation for holding less races -- Let me say if my motivation was that I could not justify putting in so many hours for only that few racers then I would have quit this job a long long long time ago, we actually would have never made it past the first year!

Yes our motovation is to up rider count, Greg you said it is not a saturation problem but the inverse, the way I understand that is that you
feel there are more than enough riders to make each track successful, and not enough races each week.

Let me tell you some of the things we have heard from riders that make us think that cutting back on races is a better idea.

"it costs to much in gas to get to tooele, it is such a long drive"

"There are so many races each week we have to pick and choose, and
sence we live closer to ____________ other track that is where we will be racing"

"There are just not enough riders at Tooele, it is always total points or we have to race really young kids or much older more experianced riders, basically there is no compition, I am not challanged"

"After racing Thursday at Rad, Friday at Ogden, and Saturday in Lindon and Manti, I am just too warn out to race on Saturday night." (Or my child is)


These are just a few of the things we hear all summer long as we are trying to get people to come to DP.

There are enough racers in Utah to make any track successful, but in our oppinion not enough to make all of them successful, esp when not everyone can do it all. (although the Pattersons can, but I believe they are the exception to the rule) Yes, it is sad when a track closes but when you consider the fact that each track has to pay for awards, ABA fees, on top of opperation costs, 20-25 riders adverage most of the time does not cut it. and Yes it is frustrating when we spend HOURS at the track each Saturday only to have 10 or so riders show up, sometimes only 3-4.
It is frustrating not only for us but for the few riders who actually come out. Remember I said our adverage over the last 2 years with all our big races added in is only about 20-25.

If we cut down to 2 races per month, that gives everyone a break, not only on time, but on money, as well as gives those who choose to race Nationals the oppertunity not to have to pick and choose between those and the local Saturday night races. We also hope that it will give more riders the opportunity to attend the races, wether the problem they are having is a conflict with another race, money or time, maybe then the racers that do come out more often will have an actual competitive race.
I can not tell you how many times in the last 2 years, we did not have enough racers to make a legal moto, so everyone decided to just have a practice.

Advertising-- ok lets talk about this, yes we have done a lot of advertising, I have advertized in schools, with flyers, (the local principal is the one who has the final say as to weather or not we are able to put them in that school, yes we have had principals say no, even though the district said ok) We have put adds in the news paper, we have put notices in stores, and had race dates run across the electronic sign in town, we have had a membership drive, the only suggestion you made that we have not done, is to make banners and put them up (there is no place we are allowed to put them and put a booth at the county fair, that has to be approved and so far we have not been approved by the county to do so. we have done everything we can that we have been able to get the county to pay for or approve, get donated, and we have paid huge amounts out of our own pocket to get people to come to the track.

If you have any other idea on what we can do, I am always glad to here suggestions.
but please keep in mind that we are only 2 people and can only do so much, as of today, Darrin is working a full time job, I do daycare, am working for a mortgage company and have my own business, just to make ends meet, so help would be nice. I have asked many many times I have agreed to go in with every program you have suggested in the past and so far..... not much has happened.

Jason,
Where do I start?
You said if we were really thinking about quiting then to read no more, let me say this, of course we have thought about quiting, however no decisions have been made, that is why I am asking for input, however I really don't think our thinking about quitting is such a suprise, I would hope that every TO thinks about what is best for them, their track and their family during the off season, before they make a commitment to do somthing that may not be for the best.


You said " If your already distressed about low rider count, and not having any fun, then that attitude will convey to the riders. People want to come out and ride to have fun, not hear about closing the track because of low rider count"

I never said we did not like the BMX or were not having any fun, we always have fun, but it is overwhelming and stressfull at times, we are human and have bad days same as everyone.

Jason, there are only a few reasons tracks close, the land is taken away, and low rider count (that translates into not enough money coming in to pay the bills) Yes I am sure a lot of tracks would like to have an average of 20-25 riders at each race, but there are also a lot of tracks, Rad Canyon for instance that I would imagian would shut there doors for a better average than that.

I think I explained at the first of this post why we believe that cutting back on races could just bring in more racers so I won't go there now.
I will say that I know that not everyone can come to every race, and if we have to pick and choose dates then some would be left out, but as it sits most are picking and choosing any way.

You brought up the SCQ again, So I am going to address this now again, yes quite a few racers wanted it moved to Sunday, however we did have a lot who opted for wednesday, and the riders from out of state that I talked to, all thought that Wednesday was the better option, as it was, the weather was so bad, that there was NO way for us to know if the track would be raceable the next morning, (everyone wanted a sunday morning race) based on experiance with the Tooele weather and the work we have done on that track, we felt it was better to put it off for a few days, and in the end it was, we lost a lot of riders on Saturday night, but on wednesday almost all returned and we had people come that did not make it on Saturday, so that in the end we had a better turn out for the Wednesday race than we would have on Saturday, ok maybe we would have had a better on on Sunday, but was it worth the risk of having the track flooded sunday morning and losing riders for 2 days in a row? As TO's sometimes we have to make the hard decision, that was one of the many we have had to make, we did it and it turned out great. No not everyone was happy with our decision, but the majority were or at least acted like they were, that is all we can do.

As for starting to race earler on Satudays, this is something that we have tried in the past, and it did not work, there were a lot of complaints about getting to Tooele on time, the traffic was a major problem, so was people getting off of work in time to make it, then there is the problem with having the sun in your eyes in the starting gate, the other problem with starting earler is that again it forces people to choose between us and manti, I won't do that, to us them or the riders.
As for starting on time, we almost always start on time, the only times we don't is when there is a big race someplace else and as a courtsey to the riders and other tracks we hold sign-up's, when we do not have enough riders to make a race and those in attendance have asked us to wait and see if others are coming, when someone calls and says that there is an accident getting to Tooele, or someother traffic problem, or when we have technical problems in the office, none of those things happened very often this last year, and the only time last year a race did not get over before 8:30-9:00 was when we had a big ridercount. Practice does go over sometimes actually most times, but no one is required to stay for practice. Even after clean up last year, Darrin and I very seldom got out after 10 pm.

As far as the Tooele Summer Series goes, that was a difficult situation all the way around, first off the series rules were changed every week for the first few week, then with the multi track series getting cancled people got that confused with our Tooeel Series, so lots did not show up thinking it was cancled, after Bruce and the others decided they could not take part in the series anymore, we took it over and did the best we could with the information we had, I advertised it more than once that it would be available every saturday all summer long, and if riders showed up that wanted to take part we had the race. I am sorry if you did not get the information, I did my best to make it work.

You Said
" As great as a track might be, it comes down to the TO's and the volunteers. If they are having fun being at the track, that helps create a positivae atmosphere. Attitude can go a long way in getting more people out to the track."

Well I am going to take a stab at this and assume that means we have a rotten attitude? is that what you are saying? If so, I will say again, we are human we have bad days, and as much fun as it is being at a race, running a track is not always fun and games, I listen to more complaints duing a race than you can ever imagian and I still for the most part come out smiling, or at least try to.

Jason Stout -- I am a little confused about a couple of things that you wrote, so as to save time I am only going to reply to what I understood you to say.

You said "People will come as long as you are keeping it fun and worrying about the people that ARE there and not who isn't"

Your right, but in the long run the fact that more people are not coming is what is going to put the track under. As with any business (yes BMX is a business) if you sit on your behind and only worry about those who come, and not pay any attention to those who don't you won't have a business for very long. That is what we are trying to avoid, not having a "business" anymore.

We have always put our riders first, and have always gone the extra mile to make our track a fun place to be for everyone, and from what I have heard from lots of people it is one of the funnest tracks around. As far as Darrin and I are conserned that will never change.

I, like everyone who posted that I replied to want all that I have said to be taken in the spirit it was given, I understand that everyone does there best, and want's what is best for BMX in Utah, that is why we are considering holding fewer races this year, the reality is that if all the tracks would cut back on races each month, all would more than likley pull more riders, making it funner for the racers and easier for the tracks, but we are smart enough to know that can not happen, some of the tracks here need all that they can get or they will have to shut down, we are trying to find a solution to a problem, thats all.

Darrin and Diana

[bnd]

Damn my eyes hurt!

D,
A very well written response indeed & I think you covered all the bases. I still think my response is the best solution. Put it another way, I would BET my bike that even if the Cooks had free racing every Saturday, the moto counts would stay the same.

Up until I called it a season in mid June, I promoted the hell out of Tooele, I gave everyone a flyer in the stands at Rad a few times & talked to people I knew had never been out there to come & check it out. The early races were promising but as summer hit, the moto counts dried up, which BTW usually happens at any track. Beginning of the outdoor season promoting was not the issue, we redid the track, got a killer open series started & the time, Saturday nights WORK. The bottom line is that it's Tooele.......off the beaten path.

Just because I disappear after June doesn't mean I don't care for the well being of all BMX tracks in Utah. This is what I would do if I were T.O. of Tooele.
- Go to 2 nights a month, make those 2 nights as special as you possibly can.
- Try to open the track earlier this year.
- I'm a firm believer in changing up the design every year or more. Start early, at least get some of the dirt moved around so it can be groomed later.
- Another $1 Open series. I'm sure I could get another sponsor & cool prizes.
- Put somebody in charge of promoting the track FULLTIME. Somebody that will go the extra mile leading up to the race night making sure every racer & family knows about it.

Last year it was only a few of us promoting the track in the SLC valley, as in flyers. This needs to change. The goal last summer was to pull a solid 15-20 motos on a consistant basis & I'm still cofident that Tooele could do that but the support needs to be an on-going thing throughout the season.


...On second thought, I don't even want to think about being a T.O., I have niether the patience, energy, time or drive to want that job.


b.

[Guest]

IM WONDERING WHETHER THE DESERET PEAK BMX DILEMA IS AS DIFFICULT AS IT SOUNDS. DIANE IS VERY PASSIONATE IN HER RHETORIC ABOUT THE TRACK, AND RIGHTFULLY SO, SHE HAS INVESTED BOTH TIME AND MONEY, NOT TO MENTION BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS TO EARN THAT RIGHT. IM SURE ALL TO'S DO THE SAME THING TO MAKE THEIR RESPECTIVE TRACKS OPERATE PROPERLY. LET ME PUT MY 2CENTS WORTH IN AND CLOUD THE ISSUE EVEN FURTHER PERHAPS.
FIRST OFF, ANY TRACK, BE IT DPBMX OR RAD CANYON, HAS TO BUILD ITS OWN RIDER BASE, AND CULTIVATE THAT BEFORE THEY CAN GO TO OTHER GEOGRAPHICAL AREAS TO AUGMENT THEIR RIDER BASE.
A FEW YEARS AGO, SOME PEOPLE TRIED TO BUILD A TRACK IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE SL VALLEY CALLED JORDAN RIVER RACEWAY. THIS OCCURRED SHORTLY AFTER GOLDEN SPIKE BMX IN OGDEN HAD SHUT DOWN. THE THEORY WAS THAT IT WOULD BE A VIABLE TRACK BECAUSE PEOPLE FROM OGDEN, LOGAN AND DAVIS AND WEBER COUNTIES WOULD COME THERE NOW THAT GOLDEN SPIKE WAS GONE. THERE WAS ALSO THE THOUGHT THAT ANYONE NOT HAPPY WITH RAD CANYONS SCHEDULE WOULD ALSO SHOW UP THERE, AND THEN THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO MATCH RAD IN PARTICIPATION, AND TAKE THE BIGGER RACES AWAY FROM RAD. BUT IT NEVER HAPPENED. THE REASON IT DIDNT IS BECAUSE A TRACK, LIKE A GOOD BUSINESS, MUST STAND ON ITS OWN, AND IN TOOELES CASE, THAT MEANS THAT THEIR RIDER BASE MUST COME FROM TOOELE COUNTY FIRST. THATS INCLUSIVE OF THE POPULATION OF DUGWAY TOO.
FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, THAT HASNT HAPPENED. IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE THROUGH LACK OF EFFORT OR LACK OF COMMITMENT ON THE TO'S PART OR ANYONE ELSES. SOMETIMES, THINGS ARE JUST SIMPLY THE WAY THEY ARE, AND NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT.
BMX IS NOT AS MOBILE AS IT ONCE WAS. IN THE PAST 5 YRS, MANY BMXERS HAVE ELECTED NOT TO TRAVEL TO SURROUNDING STATES FOR THEIR BIGGER RACES, AND HAVE DECIDED TO STAY AT HOME AND RACE LOCALLY. ITS SIMPLY HOW IT IS THESE DAYS. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. RECREATIONAL DOLLARS ARE MORE PRUDENTLY SPENT, AND ITS NOTHING PERSONAL, AND SHOULDNT BE SEEN THAT WAY.
ALOT OF TRACKS HAVE COME AND GONE, AND THAT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN TOO, BUT YOUR MAJOR TRACKS WILL SURVIVE, AND NOT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING MORE THAN THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT PLACES AT THE RIGHT TIMES.
IT MATTERS NOT IF YOU ARE THE TO OF RAD CANYON OR CEDAR BMX, OR ANYWHERE FOR THAT MATTER, THE COMMITMENT IS THE SAME, AND SO IS THE GOAL. DIANE, YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, AND YOUR DOING IT FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS, SO DO WHAT YOU FEEL IS THE BEST THING FOR YOU AND YOUR TRACK. IF 2 DAYS A MONTH ARE SUFFICIENT FOR NOW, THATS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO.
DONT BE SUCKERED IN TO THINKING THAT YOU CAN GUIDE YOUR TRACK BY WHAT A BIG TRACK LIKE RAD CANYON DOES. I RECALL THAT THE REASON RAD WENT TO TWO NIGHTS OF RACING WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE HITTING 60 PLUS MOTOS A NIGHT AND 260 OR MORE RIDERS AND THEIR CURFEW WAS BEING PUSHED TO THE LIMIT. IT CAME DOWN TO TWO NIGHTS OF RACING OR TO LIMITING THE NUMBER OF RIDERS AND MOTOS. IN RETROSPECT, THEY DID WHAT THEY HAD TO DO TO STAY OUT OF TROUBLE WITH THE COUNTY AND THE NEIGHBORS.
I HAVE BEEN TO DPBMX WITH MY FAMILY ON A NUMBER OF OCCASSIONS, AND HAVE HAD GREAT FUN BECAUSE ALL OF US LOOKED AT IS AS AN ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITY TO RACE. WE DID NOT GO EVERY WEEK BECAUSE WE COULDNT, BUT WE WENT AS OFTEN AS WE COULD. I THINK THAT PRETTY WELL IS THE SITUATION WITH MOST OF US. MY FAMILY APPRECIATES THE UTAH BMX FAMILY, AND WE MOST CERTAINLY APPRECIATE ALL OF THE TO'S AND VOLUNTEERS WHO MAKE IT ALL P0SSIBLE.
BUT WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND THAT BMX TRACKS ARE NOT LIKE CORN FIELDS TURNED INTO BASEBALL DIAMONDS IN IOWA.....JUST BECAUSE WE BUILD IT, DOESNT MEAN THEY WILL COME. WORK WITH WHAT YOU HAVE, AND IT WILL EVENTUALLY GROW, BUT PATIENCE IS THE KEY, AND IF YOU NEED TO ONLY HAVE 2 NIGHTS A MONTH FOR NOW, DO IT, AND WE WILL COME

[greg]

I had a very lenghty reply to this thread, but really, it all just boled down to this.....

I'm sorry that I didn't get the program I wanted to off the ground last year. I WILL get something going for Tooele this summer, as well as racing much more (giving DP 2 or 3 more racers on a regular basis). I WILL get something going for RAD indoor this year, too.

Diana, I love ya babe, and will support ya in whatever decision you make. (don't worry Darrin, she's safe...I'm just messin with ya)

Please don't stop asking for help, and keep communicating as much as possible. We all love to know what's going on.

Boy, that is much better then the 50 page response I had at first. lol

[greg]

and yes, I should have proof read my post for spelling before posting, sorry.

[J Gallo]

Diana,

Would you like me to use next weeks poll to cover this topic?

Something like....

Would you race DPBMX in Tooele more if they changed to 2 races per month?

O - Yes
O - No
O - Where's Tooele?

Let me know, I'd be happy to do it!

[bmxkraut]

Jason .. Is it feasable to add a extra vote option? I'm racked on how to answer this poll. Would I come more if DP raced twice a month.. That's a tough question to answer yes or no to since our family is normally always there every week. I cant say "yes" because I wouldn't be racing "more" by going every two weeks, I thought to say "no" but that wouldn't come out right either .. ?? We love the Saturday tailgate races

[D Cook]

Jason,

I agree with the above post, the way we have the poll reading makes it hard to answer, maybe we could change it to say something like

Would you be more willing/able to race at DPBMX if they changed to only racing 2 days per month?

The wording may need some help but I think you get the idea.


Diana

[J Gallo]

Done!!