Paved Corners. Do you love'em? Hate'em?

[FLYNHIGH]

You may have seen the voting topic on this weeks poll... "RAD Canyon BMX is considering paving one or more of their turns. Would you like to see this happen?"

I am, as well as Rad Canyon, is interested in what everyone has to say about this. So, what do you think? Let's discuss!!!

I'm curious to actually know how many people have rode on a track with paved corners? For me, the first one that comes to mind is Cutting Edge BMX, in Ontario, California. Last year, the 2005 Worlds were located there. Even though the starting hill was filled in, the track had Rad Canyon's speed! Some of their corners were VERY tight and short. Had they not been paved, riders would have been sliding out, riding over, and would not have been able to carry their speed around them.

Now for Rad Canyon. This year, and many years in the past, Rad Canyon has had a fast track mainly because of the, dubbed "landmark," starting hill. The corners, or berms, on the track have been built up to handle this speed. Being that they are a dirt surface corner there are many problems that the track maintenance crew must deal with.

- "Washing out" of the berms from the rain which causes them to actually get flatter.

- Maintenance. Keeping our corners in tip-top shape takes a great amount of water, shoveling/raking/sweeping, and labor.

- Durability. During the nationals, the corners have been famous for falling apart. With all of the riders that blaze around the corners, the dirt begins to "blue-groove" (where the rubber from the tires sticks to the dirt) and then it just falls apart leaving a slippery, soft, and potentially dangerous mess. The first corner is famous for wrecks and slideouts during the national. Last year, there was a soft-spot on the top of the exit of the second berm that was the cause for many wrecks.

Now, if Rad Canyon was to pave the corners (with asphalt) all of these issues/problems would be resolved! The corners would then have:

- High durability.
- Minimal maintenance.
- Extreme traction!

Many tracks, especially in the east and outside of the US, have paved corners.

For myself, and many others, this would be a blessing! My class has had a wreck in the first turn, during the nationals, for like three years in a row! You can see the "pile-up" in the 2006 ABA Calendar or on contents page of the July 2005 BMXer.

So those are my thoughts, what's your take on it?

[bmxchris73]

I vote yes I've never been on paved corners but I've always that they would be fun and a lot faster and less chance of sliding out. So my vote is Yes put in paved corners it will make Rad a better track.

[awsm4]

I like the idea of paved corners but wonder how the transition from the triple to the corner would work...I think the biggest benefit is the virtual maintenance free aspect...dunno this is one for the big wigs to handle...I can promise you this paved or dirt I'll still be there.

Adam

[mackdaddy]

Adam
For jumps going into a corner we pave part way up the landing of the jump to make a smooth transition from dirt to asphalt

[FLYNHIGH]

As of now, the results are...

Yes: 37
No: 34
Don't Care: 2

So far in this discussion, everyone is really keen on the idea. So where are those of you who don't want them? Don't be afraid to voice your opinion!

[bnd]

Iv'e got alot fo experiance racing on paved turns, 3 nationals at Rockford & 2 nationals & 1 local at Mesquite. I'm all for pavement but when that time comes, the right people need to do it. Bill Curtain of the ABA worked with asphalt for 20 years & the T.O. of Rockford (Gene?)seems to know how to "work" the stuff too. From what Iv'e read, you rake it in place & let it sit. No rolling it or really even touching it because it causes ripples.

I see the 1st turn & 2nd turn paved at RC but I would leave the last turn open (dirt) for the time being. You can still do a few cool things in that area & you wouldn't want to screw yourselves by not being able to move it or mess with it after it was paved.


b.

[Diesel]

Just don't crash!!! Greely CO, and Mesquite come to mind.

Shread those 90 dollar pants you just bought and I think you'll be hating it!

There certainly are advantages with the pavement if it's done well. The low maintenance and traction are killer!!! Just don't crash!

Break out the knee and elbow pads folks. Knees and elbows get good traction too! Crashing's gonna hurt regardless, but I prefer the 600 grit over the 80 grit when I trim the bones in my elbow!

Maybe consider spending the money on better dirt! There's got to be some around here somewhere!

[greg]

I can't say that I have ever been on paved turns (unless you count the colosium in the 80's ha ha), but I am one of the ones that voted against it.

The main reason I see as a negative to paving is it pretty much limits your ability to change the layout of the track. As Jason mentioned, to transition to the first turn, you would pave the back side of the triple. Well, then I hope you like that jump sitting RIGHT THERE forever, because you are probably not going to rip up the pavement. I know we all like the way the track is layed out now, but what happens in 5 years when there are new thoughts on how a track should flow. I'm sure there used to be people that liked the first turn as a 90 deg. at one time. What would have happened if it was paved like that? I know that most of the jumps could still be changed, so you would still have some flexability.

Another reason that I see as a negative is the cost. I think that the money would be better spent on many other things. Paving turns will net you zero new riders, and I'll bet zero gain on retention. Of course, I really don't know the cost of paving, but I can imagine that it is not cheap.

One more reason is the old school in me. I can't help but feel that part of racing is knowing how far to push it in corners. When will the dirt break loose? Should I gamble on making a pass? Can I stick it inside?

Just some thoughts on the negative side of things.

[Punk-Biker940]

I personally dont like the idea of paved turns because of crashing pretty much. many people crash over the triple and with the first turn paved i think that would make the crashes alot worse. also with nationals coming up in about a month and a half, I thinl that there will be alot of pile ups in the corners and such. Even though there are alot of advantages, it seems like the advantages are more for the people who like to jump and they would be able to pick up more speed off of the asphalt and be able to jump much easier, but the little kids and other new riders that dont have much experience I think would be better off on dirt so they wont be afraid to pick up speed and not have to worry about crashing on the hard asphalt. But this is just my opinion so do whatever you would like

[greg]

As for maintenance, how about something like Soil-Tac?
Or tarping the corners to prevent ruts?

[Curtis Newkirk]

I say pave it, or at least turns one and two. Asphault is not expensive at all and offers all of the advantages mentioned above. Plus it is not that much 'harder' to land on than hard-packed clay type dirt. Like Bruce said, just don't mess it up. Boulder City had some pretty rough turns because they did not do it right.

[Curtis Newkirk]

Another solution is to put a big cover over the place like DeSoto. Then maybe wall it is like the Equestrian Center

[Guest]

I hate to post this but here it is. The county donated that land to us and everyone that comes out there, it is our land and park the track belongs to everyone that uses it. Yet I go look at the ball parks and soccer parks in the Salt Lake valley and they are clean and green, not our's, now if you ran county parks and rec. would you really want to keep a bike park that is not kept up? All the $$$$$$$$$$ that is spent this year needs to be spent on appearance if we can't get volunteers to clean up we need to hire it done. We need new pavement on the back side of the track and around the snak bar area, roofs and paint on all the buildings, we need weeds to be gone. We need grass to be extened down to the first and last turn, the moutain bike track needs to look as good as the bmx track or the county will do something with the land. This place is one of the greatest bike parks in the USA now it is time to make it the best looking park in Salt Lake County. This is your yard, take care of it thay way. Spend the $$$$$$$$$ on a Face lift first so we can keep our bike park.

[FLYNHIGH]

Geez! I go to bed, wake up, and there's a bunch of posts!!! Awesome!

There have definately been some good points made. Many have given me a new insight as well. I would like to discuss some things that have been said.

Greg: "...paving is it pretty much limits your ability to change the layout of the track." We have already learned that the track is the way it is, and nothing will change it. Do we all remember the Pro-Section discussion? So at this point, I don't see this as an issue.

Some of you have brought up the idea that Rad's money could be spent on other things. I whole heartedly agree! There is so many possibilities!

As Guest brought up, much more time, money, and effort needs to be spent on making the facility better to keep the county happy. Some great ideas are:

- Paving the gravel areas. This would eliminate the thorn/weed problem. Instead of having a "green" park, let's have a "black" one. Plaster Rad in pavement!!!

- Visual upkeep. Paint buldings, repair roofs, etc. How about some TREES! Spray those weeds with some powerful stuff!

If money is an issue, why doesn't the track start up a donation drive to "Clean Up Our Yard"? I would love to see my money/donation be directly put to something that will benefit the track, the riders/parents, and keep the county happy. Just an idea people... What are your thoughts on that?

As far as the MTB track goes, how about instead of grassing the infield, just put some fabric down and lay some gravel/wood chips/etc over it? I'm sure they would enjoy the flexibility that would provide.

I'm going to start a topic in the marketing forum about this!

As far as the cost of asphalting the corners, Mr. Dale told me they were going to get a quote on the cost.

Some other great ideas as an alternative to asphalting; if Rad Canyon decides not to do it:

- Soil-Tac. Awesome stuff, how much does it cost? This would minimize maintenance, make the berms packed, and give them tons of traction.

- New dirt. At the Grants Pass, Oregon, BMX track, their dirt sucked! Well, I guess I should say the dirt underneath the 6 inch layer of granite based top-soil they put over it. I'll have to ask Carson Johnson what exactly it was... Anyway, that track rode great! The corners were pretty much asphalt and were harder than... yeah.

Just some thoughts; sorry they were off-topic! Keep those ideas flowin' and remember this is an open public forum. In other words, "I hate to post this but here it is." is now officially unacceptable . Don't be afraid to share your thoughts!!!

[FLYNHIGH]

Here's the link to the upkeep thread.

http://www.utahbmx.com/bmxbb/nfphpbb/vi ... php?p=6457